http://SaturnianCosmology.Org/ mirrored file For complete access to all the files of this collection see http://SaturnianCosmology.org/search.php ========================================================== Thunderbolts Forum For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology themes. Skip to content * Board index < Electric Universe - Planetary Science * Change font size * FAQ * Register * Login The circularization of the orbit of venus Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth. Forum rules Post a reply First unread post o 8 posts o Page 1 of 1 The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by venn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:37 pm Are there any numbers and calculations available on the time it took with the Electric Universe Theory for Venus to come to the current orbit after being ejected from Jupiter as I. Velikovsky suggested? venn Posts: 2 Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:27 pm Location: Germany + E-mail + Website Top _________________________________________________________________ That problem has been eclipsed by others New post by Lloyd on Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:49 pm - I think most of Velikovsky's followers who discuss the orgins of Venus now agree that Venus likely erupted from Saturn, not Jupiter. Dave Talbott's, Wal Thornhill's and Dwardu Cardona's theories seem to have replaced Velikovsky's in popularity, based on scientific evidence. Talbott and Cardona independently concluded in the early 70s, I think, that Earth was initially a satellite of Saturn. Then it seems that Thornhill persuaded everyone that the Saturn system was not even in the Solar system until a few thousand years ago. At about that time Venus erupted from Saturn and was seen on the face of Saturn, while Mars was between Venus and Earth. Instead of orbiting Saturn, the 3 planets were in polar alignment with Saturn's pole. Cardona has said that Jupiter was likely also in polar alignment usually over Earth's south pole. He says Earth seems to have flipped over at a later date, so that Jupiter appeared to replace Saturn at the north pole. - If the Saturn system came apart near the asteroid belt, which is now between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, then Venus was thrown farthest inward, Earth second-farthest, and Mars the least, while Saturn moved outward farthest and Jupiter least. All of those planets were likely on elliptical orbits for a time. Thornhill seems to say that the magnetotails of the planets caused their orbits to circularize, but I don't know if he has stated how long it likely took. - Have you checked out http://holoscience.com or http://kronia.com/thoth.html? Lloyd Posts: 66 Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:54 pm + E-mail Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by nick c on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:22 am Hello venn, Are there any numbers and calculations available on the time it took with the Electric Universe Theory for Venus to come to the current orbit[...] I don't think that there is a precise mathematical model, if that is what you are looking for, due to the complexity of determining the exact outcome of the interactions of moving charged planetary bodies in the plasma environment of the inner solar system. I don't know of any mathematical modeling of such scenarios, or if it would be of much use in light of the simplifying assumptions that would be necessary. For a discussion on the difficulties involved in dating of events see: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=317 Keeping in mind, that the circularization of Venus' orbit in a Newtonian only universe is problematic, and this, and celestial mechanics in general, triggered the rejection of Worlds In Collision by astronomers. While Newtonian mechanics seems to apply quite well to the observed motions of the present order of the solar system, this is because a disturbed system is going to move toward a point of least action interaction, between the magnetotails (plasma sheaths) until stability is reached. http://www.kronia.com/thoth/thoth08.txt from: THE ELECTRICAL SUN By Ralph Juergens The interplanetary medium is capable of confining the electric fields of charged celestial bodies within space-charge sheaths of limited dimensions. This phenomenon explains the success of gravitational theory in describing and predicting orbital motions in the present, relatively stable Solar System. But there may also be another factor. CIRCULAR ORBITS by Donald Scott and Wal Thornhill DONALD SCOTT WROTE: It also appears that Jupiter's plasma sheath extends almost all the way to Saturn (much as Venus' does toward Earth). I'm wondering if any more of the planets have plasma sheaths that extend to just short of their next outward neighbor's orbit. If that were the case, it certainly seems consistent with the idea that the electric charge on each planet (together with the electrical potential of the solar plasma at that orbital distance) determines the length of the planet's sheath - and this, in turn, causes circularization and the spacing between the orbits of adjacent planets. WAL SAYS: You have the argument for orbit spacing precisely, but I consider it to be a secondary effect. There would also seem to be a primary mechanism at work where the annual charge exchange with the solar plasma sheet is smoothed out. Comets are an extreme example of varying charge exchange throughout an orbit and we know that they exhibit so-called non-gravitational accelerations. I have suggested that those accelerations *are* due to gravity but that it is gravity itself that is changing as a result of strong charge exchange with the solar plasma. Such an orbit circularising mechanism would be more powerful since it operates continually and not just when planets are in line with the Sun. It would explain the near circular orbit of Jupiter since any effect from Mars would be negligible. Also the number of oppositions of the outer gas giants since the proposed Saturnian system breakup, ca. 10,000 years ago, would be quite small. So you might expect their orbital eccentricities to be much higher if they were involved and the mechanism you mentioned was the only one to cause circularisation of orbits. As for the origin of Venus... [...]after being ejected from Jupiter as I. Velikovsky suggested? I think that the majority of catastrophists are of the opinion that Velikovsky strayed away from the requirements of his own methodology by asserting that Venus was born from Jupiter. He placed too much emphasis on a Greek myth, when in fact the preponderance of worldwide mythological evidence points to Saturn. Nick User avatar nick c Posts: 72 Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm Location: connecticut + E-mail Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by venn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:25 pm Thanks for all your answers. I'm asked myself if there are just some basic calculations available that would make it plausible that such a circularization could happen in the EU without problems (with a 39 magnitudes stronger force) in a very short timeframe. That would be a nice argument in a discussion about the EU setting compared to a purely Newton/Einstein space. venn Posts: 2 Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:27 pm Location: Germany + E-mail + Website Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by Lloyd on Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:50 pm - I think Robert Bass or someone did find a mathematical formula by which chaotic and highly eccentric orbits could be circularized fairly quickly, but I don't think it took electrical forces into account. It seems like it was discussed in Kronos magazine. I remember a photo of him or someone else with a model of a toroid with curved paths all over it. I guess it was a computer-generated model. - Lynn Rose and I guess Robert Bass also had an earlier model for orbit circularization back in the late 70s with an article in Pensee' magazine, as I recall. But Nick's quote of Thornhill above seems to be the best lead nowadays. Maybe the former model from Bass also has some relevance. Last edited by Lloyd on Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total. Lloyd Posts: 66 Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:54 pm + E-mail Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by STUD on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:05 am venn wrote:Are there any numbers and calculations available on the time it took with the Electric Universe Theory for Venus to come to the current orbit after being ejected from Jupiter as I. Velikovsky suggested? :shock: venus was at some part of time a part of Jupiter???? really?? can you give some links?? STUD Posts: 3 Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:05 pm + E-mail + Website Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by webolife on Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:24 pm A friend of mine, professor emeritus at UW, has a 3-body computer model/simulation of the circularization of Venus' orbit along with the capture of the moon by the earth. Entirely Newtonian from my understanding. It is based on the assumption that at one time Earth and Venus orbited at a distance of just 15 million miles from each other, allowing for the "gravitational locking" of the the two planets currently observed. Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality. webolife Posts: 168 Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm + E-mail Top _________________________________________________________________ Re: The circularization of the orbit of venus New post by Grey Cloud on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:16 pm STUD wrote: venn wrote:Are there any numbers and calculations available on the time it took with the Electric Universe Theory for Venus to come to the current orbit after being ejected from Jupiter as I. Velikovsky suggested? :shock: venus was at some part of time a part of Jupiter???? really?? can you give some links?? Try http://www.varchive.org/ That should keep you out of mischief for a while. Welcome aboard. If I have the least bit of knowledge I will follow the great Way alone and fear nothing but being sidetracked. The great Way is simple but people delight in complexity. I Ching, 53. Grey Cloud Posts: 203 Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am Location: NW UK Top _________________________________________________________________ Display posts from previous: [All posts] Sort by [Post time] [Ascending.] Go _________________________________________________________________ Post a reply 8 posts o Page 1 of 1 Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science Jump to: [Electric Universe - Planetary Science..] Go Who is online Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests * Board index * The team o Delete all board cookies o All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group