Saturnus Milky Way Deity Milky Way Saturnus and Milky Way Venus Planet Saturn THE SATURN-MARS-VENUS-NIBIRU "MYTH" CONFUSIONS How to confuse a very secular planetary "myth" and raise it to non sense! Saturn-Saturnus Arguments Saturn Polar Configuration Babylonian Astrology Confusion Nibiru Testing Alien Sky Videos Catastrophism Ship of Heaven Milky Way Deities Light and White Deities The Great Mother Former Thunderbolt Membership The VSSS-Statement Links/Contact Watch my Mytho-Cosmological YouTube video ______________________________________________________________ ON TESTING THE SHIP OF HEAVEN ______________________________________________________________ - It is obvious that many scholars have great difficulties with separating the mythological deities. In the following I'll try to do just that, starting of with some: Basic Mythological Rules: 1. It is very essential to distinguish the deities belonging to the light of the Sun; the light of the Central Sun; the light of the Star Constellations and the White color of the Milky Way. 2. It is very essential to distinguish between the matriarchal planetary Mother Earth and the Galactic Mother. 3. It is very essential to distinguish between the patriarchal Solar System god, Father Sun and the Galactic Father. 4. It is very essential to distinguish between Planetary and Milky Way deities. Bearing these rules in mind, it is possible to differ in the text below in such a way, that it makes logical sense and clearly makes it easy and recognizable for everyone who watches a Star Map Atlas what is going on in the Mythological texts. - In the following I will test the text below accordingly to my basically mythological rules and to modern Astronomy and Cosmology, already from the very beginning distinguish between the Planetary deity Saturn, and the Milky Way deity of "Saturnus", "the planetary Saturn's higher alter ego", as mentioned by the author below in the text. The alter one who has been forgotten in many centuries. Quotes from and remarks to David Talbott: In two previous essays, I have outlined a theory of the Saturnian age, claiming that only a few thousand years ago (some time before the dawn of civilization) the Earth participated in a planetary system unlike anything known today. Though all of modern science presumes the ancient sky to have looked much like our sky today, I have argued that early man witnessed a remarkable assembly of planets moving close to the Earth and presenting a spectacular apparition in the heavens. I have called this apparition the polar configuration, and suggested that its tangible forms are mirrored in all of ancient myth and symbol. (#1 In fact, the history of this celestial apparition was the history of the gods. I have claimed also that the theory of the polar configuration can be tested and verified through a comprehensive survey of ancient records; and that the validity of the theory will become increasingly apparent as one descends to particulars: the very level at which other explanations collapse is that at which the explanatory power of the polar configuration is most definitive. (#2) To further illustrate the thesis, I shall here take up an example familiar to all students of myth: The ship of heaven. Because ancient sources offer a huge volume of data on this subject (including many incontrovertible and previously-unexplained facts), it is a chance to see how well the theory is able to unify what has previously appeared as contradiction and absurdity. (#3) A Model of the Ship If the cosmic ship of the myths has any reference in the model I have proposed (Fig. 1), it is without doubt a figure of the revolving crescent. (#4) For if ancient man did indeed gaze up at the vast crescent of the proposed polar configuration, watching it move in a daily circuit around the massive orb of Saturn, it is not difficult to imagine that they would see a ship of light revolving in a daily cycle: (#5) Figure 2. The four phases of the polar configuration According to the model, the apparition began to grow bright as the crescent descended to the left of Saturn (Fig 2:a); reached its point of greatest splendour when the crescent was directly below Saturn (b); began to diminish as the crescent rose to the right (c); and was its weakest when the crescent was directly over Saturn (d). This daily cycle, I have claimed, is reflected in all ancient symbolism of the Saturnian "day" and "night." (#6) My explanation of the polar configuration: Since the behaviour of the crescent in this model is unambiguous and invites no confusion with the behaviour of our "new Moon" today there should be no difficulty in confirming the true identity of the ship if the model is fundamentally valid. (#7) It will be useful, then, to enumerate the ways in which the model distinguishes itself from conventional interpretations of the ship. As we have emphasized, the advantage of the model is that each of the components of the configuration reveals a specific, testable relationship to the others. The crescent, for example, not only behaves in a clear, easily- defined way, but has an equally-clear relationship to the central sun, the surrounding band, the comet-like streams radiating from the band, the four directional streams of the sun-cross, the polar column, (The Earth Tree) and the revolving cometary curl. (#8) And in each of these defined relationships the predicted imagery provides a stark contrast to any likely descriptions of the Sun, Moon and stars as they appear to us today. (#9) For starters, our model suggests these fundamental characteristics: The cosmic ship was originally the vehicle of the god and planet Saturn. (#10) Since Saturn was the ancient sun god, Saturn's ship must be the universal "ship of the sun." (#11) The ship was a crescent. The crescent-ship was not our Moon as usually supposed, but the illuminated half of a band around the sun god. (#12) The band of the enclosed sun (#13) was also the celestial "pathway" traversed by the ship. The ship revolved around the stationary sun god (#14) each day. (That is, while the ship was Saturn's vehicle, only the ship moved.) (#15) The ship revolved around the summit of the polar column, the axis-pillar of the world wheel. (#16) YES! The ship traversed the four "quarters" of the celestial enclosure each day. The ship was above the sun god at "night" and below during the "day." (#17) The ship meant the same thing as the two peaks of the world mountain, the horns of the bull of heaven, the outstretched wings of the mother goddess and the outstretched arms of the heaven-sustaining giant. If the mythological phrase "sailing upstream" means the rising of the crescent to the right of Saturn, then the sun god must sail upstream in the (archaic) evening, and downstream in the (archaic) morning reversal of the language anticipated by the solar interpretation. By the same logic, when the ship is in its "day" position it is below Saturn and upright but when it is in its "night" position it is above Saturn and it is inverted. If the revolving cometary curl is the magical towing rope pulling the ship on its circular journey, then the towing rope must be the same thing as the celebrated sidelock of the god-king. If the cometary streams radiating from the band of the enclosed sun are the mysterious "hair" of the celestial dwelling, then the radiating hair must be the same thing as the "oars" of the cosmic ship. (#18) Saturn's Ship More than a century and a half ago G. S. Faber remarked that the god Saturn is "literally represented as sailing over the ocean in a ship," and this ship, according to Faber, was synonymous with a host of other ships of world mythology. (#19) 3 Ovid tells us that because the god traversed the entire sphere of the "earth" in his primordial voyage, his special token was a ship.4 It is generally agreed that Ovid is correct in saying that this ship of Saturn is that which appears on the reverse of coins stamped with the double face of Janus.5 The latter god, Saturn's acknowledged alter ego (#20) , was remembered as the "inventor" of ships. Ship of the Sun As we have already documented, the ancient sun god was Saturn, (#21) so there can be no basis for separating the ship of Saturn from the often-noted ship of the sun. It is also an easily verified fact that virtually all of the great gods of myth sail in a ship, though no one has yet offered a theory to account for the many unusual traits of this celestial vehicle, which is constantly invoked as a visible form moving across the waters of the sky. The ship of Helios is a "golden goblet" sailing on the all-encompassing river Oceanus. A ship of "self-made light" transports the Iranian god Yima.9 The Japanese creator god Sukuna-Biko-Na rides "on the crest of the waves in a heavenly Kagami boat."10 "A golden ship of golden tackle moved about in the sky," reads the Hindu Atharva Veda.11 Natives of the Marquesas say that in the beginning there was only the sea on which the creator Tiki floated in a canoe.12 The Hawaiian god Tanaroa sailed above in a "flying canoe," much like the great shaman of the Yenisei Ostiaks, who "rows his boat in heaven."13 So also did the legendary Hiawatha navigate "a white canoe which moved without human aid."14 (#22) In ancient Egypt the ship is an extremely popular theme in all local traditions. It was the hope of every pious Egyptian, on their death, to be crowned like the sun god, to enter the celestial city and to alight "upon the forehead of Ra in the bows of his boat which is in heaven,"15 or to "see the Sektet boat of the sacred Sahu passing forth over the sky."16 (#23 Crescent-Ship Ship and Enclosure One feature of our model distinguishing its interpretation of the ship from all conventional understanding is the virtual identity of the crescent and the revolving wheel of the sun. The universal sun-in-crescent , I have argued, cannot be understood apart from the basic character of the enclosed sun . (#24) Illuminated by the solar orb, Saturn's celestial dwelling presented a brightly lit half, so that as the Earth turned on its axis, earthbound observers saw two revolving semicircles of light and shadow moving in a vast pathway around the stationary orb of Saturn. (#25) Hence, our model implies that the ship was part and parcel of the sun god's enclosure. (#26) Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. Figure 5. Evolution of the Egyptian crescent-enclosure A more dynamic and complex process can be seen in the evolution of the crescent-enclosure's mythical concept as a ship. (#27) Let us start with an illustration from the Papyrus of Anu. Figure 6. Elementary form of the Egyptian ship Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. The picture shows an uncomplicated profile of the ship, whose basic form is easily related to the crescent-enclosure images above. In Fig. 7 below the portrait is only slightly more complex, with the significant addition of a vital concept of the resting sun god within the enclosure. (#28) Figure 7. Sun god resting in ship Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. Then, in Fig. 8, the relative size of the enclosure is reduced and it is pushed to the left to accommodate the resting god, who also wears the enclosure on his head. Figure 8. Ship with diminished Aten-band (#29) Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. Another example shows the enclosure only on the head of the resting god, and the remaining image is complicated by the addition of two other symbolic figures a steersman and ibis, both associations vital to the total symbolism of the ship. Figure 9. Sailing god accompanied by others Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. An illustration from the Papyrus of Nu presents an array of gods in the ship, and though the enclosure is present, it has been reduced and pushed aside: Figure 10. Further displacement of the Aten-band (#30) Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. In noting these simpler levels of evolution, one sees how easily the archetypal forms were distorted, even as the artists added important mythical associations. (#31) Yes. The other, equally fundamental principle is that, with time, the functional attributes of the symbol came to dominate over the archetypal forms. I offer as an example of this process two pictures of the ship, based on the same symbolic concepts. In the first (Fig. 11), we see the Aten-band in the ship, and the sun god, now portrayed conceptually as the beetle god Khepera, inside the enclosure. (#32) Around the band and helping to preserve one of its most crucial mythical identities, is an encircling serpent with tail in mouth, the folds of the serpent being presented in such a way as to state pictorially another mythical attribute of the band: it was conceived as a surrounding stream of water. (#33) Figure 11. Khepera in boat Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. Now notice the evolution of the idea in the illustration from the Book of Gates (Fig. 12). The watery serpent is still there, but no longer as an unbroken enclosure and the band has disappeared, having been replaced by a more functional form of the god's dwelling. (#34) Water, Band, Serpent, Flying Serpent, Heavenly Ocean, Milky Way river - all synonymous for the same phenomenon. Figure 12. Sun god in navicular shrine As a concluding example of the evolutionary process, I offer an illustration from Denderah. Here the accretion of symbols combines with the progressively dominating influence of functionality to almost displace the archetypal band. The band is, however, still there, with god-child inside, though both appear in highly diminished form and are pushed virtually out of the ship, allowing the imposing functional symbol to dominate the portrait completely. Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. Figure 13. A popular functional form of the ship It would be a mistake, however, to assume that the evolution of the artistic tradition destroyed the evidential value of later Egyptian art. As will become clear, by combining interacting symbols the artists helped to preserve many aspects of the original conceptual unity even as they displaced the archetypes. And these incremental additions and distortions cannot hide the fact that, in its original concept, the ship (crescent) is inseparable from the Aten-band. (#35) The Sun God's Dwelling is a Ship With this crucial identity in hand we possess the simplest possible explanation for a heretofore unexplained (and all too frequently overlooked) fact of ancient symbolism: virtually every mythical form of the sun god's dwelling be it mother-womb or world wheel, city, temple or kingdom, egg, throne, or circular serpent was declared to be a "ship" sailing on the cosmic waters. The ancient mother goddess, conceived as a luminous "womb" in the sky, was also invoked as the "ship."29 Thus, "ship" is a name of the womb of the Sumerian Inanna.30 Correspondingly, "the ship of the brilliant offspring" was an epithet of the Babylonian goddess Bau.31 The Egyptians conceived the band of the enclosed sun as the womb of the goddess Nut, called also a "ship." The Pyramid Texts say, "Row me, O mother of mine; row me O abode of mine."32 "O Boat of the sky. . .O Boat of Nut."33 The ship of heaven is indeed a crescent, but the crescent is an aspect of the sun-god's enclosure, remembered as Saturn's world wheel. Star Atlas with Northern Milky Way contour and a Rock Carving of a Ship, both with the celestial Polar Center. This same relationship of sun god's dwelling and cosmic ship can be confirmed in all mythical forms of the dwelling. The myths deem this band to be a circle of "land" brought forth by Saturn in the creation; (#36) and "the Barge of Earth" (the celestial land) is at once a name of the sun god's ship and the kingdom in the sky over which the god rules.37 In both Egypt and Mesopotamia, throne, temple and city all appear as "ships" floating on the cosmic waters. When the Egyptian texts say, "This great god travels in this city, on the water,"38 they mean that cosmic city and cosmic ship are one. (#37) MY # COMMENTS 1) It was and it is - but is it what is suggested here? I have my serious doubts. 2) It can be tested, and, when using the basic rules above, it will be tested. 3) Of course it is possible to unify what "always" have been obviously. 4) Yes, it is. 5) What heavenly shape of a ship can be observed revolving around a planet in daytime? 6) It is really reflected in all ancient symbolism, but not as a daytime observation. 7) The difficulties seem already to build up. 8) Here it really goes wrong! The "central sun" is confused for the north hemisphere Earth axis Polar Center, the Polar Column. 9) It most certainly does! 10) And here it goes completely wrong: The vehicle was NOT the planet Saturn, but the omnipresent galactic fertility deity of Saturnus. 11) Saturn was not an ancient "sun god". Saturnus was a white galactic fertility deity. 12) The illuminated half of a band around the night Sky, is the northern Milky Way contours - and therefore NOT the "sun god", which here, again, is confused for the Earth axis Polar Center. 13) The band is the Milky Way band which is revolving around the Polar Center, NOT "the enclosed sun". 14) The ship (still) revolves, NOT around the "stationary sun god", but around the Polar Center. 15) Really, the ship was/is both the Milky Way Saturnus and the ship, being mythological intertwined or as a result of "layers upon layers of myths" over generations. 16) The ship revolved around the summit of the polar column, the axis-pillar of the world wheel. YES! Nothing wrong in this statement! Except from the lack of distinguishing the former "enclosed sun" and the "world wheel" as the Polar Center point. 17) The ship was above the sun god at "night" and below during the "day". The ship revolves and can be observed in different positions comparing to the polar center, NOT "the sun god". But the ship cannot be observed in the day time, because it is only a physical and cosmological night phenomenon. 18) Here, a "cometary stream" is confused for either the rays of the Sun, or for the outgoing rays from the Milky Way, with the enclosed Golden Light in the center. 19) The Saturnus IS really sailing over the heavenly Milky Way Ocean/River, both IN a ship, but also AS the ship. See below. 20) Saturn's acknowledged alter ego was remembered "as the inventor of ships"? How can a planet be "an inventor of a ship"? And who is "Saturn's alter ego? Is there another explanation of "Saturn" that bothers the author here? 21) No, we/you have not "already documented, the ancient sun god was Saturn". 22) "The ship of Helios" is confused! How can anyone observe the "sun being transported in a ship"? It is a mythological and factual fake, being confused for the Galaxy Ship with its golden glowing light in the Milky Way center. 23) The revolving rituals of man/ship; raise; heavenly flying; descendent; death and rebirth/raise again, build up both the southern and northern of the Milky Way figures, represented as a giant man and a giant woman. 24) It cannot be either mythological or cosmological understood. 25) They saw a crescent Milky Way figure revolving around a polar center on the night Sky. A polar center that could be marked by many different center symbols. And Saturn/Saturnus was/is not stationary, but revolving as the northern Milky Way figure. 26) For the 117.th time: Not the "sun god's enclosure"- but the celestial Polar Center, whatever the symbol was/is. 27) The crescent-enclosure's mythical concept as a ship, contains either the full Milky Way figure or the northern and southern hemispheres Milky Way contoured figures. The essential details "on the ship", constructed of the northern Milky Way figure, are sometimes the North Pole center and sometimes the very center of the Milky Way on the southern hemisphere Milky Way. 28) See ad. 27) 29) The same symbol telling very much the same but slightly different because of "the freedom of the artists". 30) See ad. 29) 31) Precisely! "In noting these simpler levels of evolution, one sees how easily the archetypal forms were distorted, even as the artists added important mythical associations" - or by withdrawing some other details accordingly to ad. 29) 32) "The Aten-band" IS the ship. The "Sun god" is the Milky Way god. And the (dung ball roller) Beetle god Khepera, is symbolising the churning/revolving of the polar center in the night Sky. The Serpent is symbolising the Milky Way Ouroboros band. 33) " . . . it was conceived as a surrounding stream of water" - yes, the Milky Way heavenly River. 34) See ad. 29) 35) "And these incremental additions and distortions cannot hide the fact that, in its original concept, the ship (crescent) is inseparable from the Aten-band" - Correct! Because the Ship and Aten-Band is the very same mythological figure "sailing" on the Milky Way Rivers. 36) How can planet Saturn create a "circle of land"? This circle of land is the Milky Way Ouroboros Circle of which the Saturnus, Saturn's alter Milky Way ego, was born out from the Milky Way center in the Star Constellation of Sagittarius, from the womb of the Great Milky Way Mother. 37) The Great Milky Way god, Saturnus, Saturn's alter Milky Way ego, travels on a Ship on the Milky Way River, around the center "city" of the Earth axis north Polar Center. MY CONCLUSIONS - Just as in the other articles from David Talbott, the whole ting deals with the very speculative Saturn Myth. This matter is so focused that other possibilities goes lost in the non reflected and speculative mix of planetary mythology that matter much more for David Talbott than the Milky Way Mythology, which really is the major global contents in all myths. - Then again, it has to be said that David Talbott has done a huge work assembling the many mythological examples in order to compare their global meaning. - Unfortunately, his mythological skills doesn't match his academic and intellectual skills and therefore it almost all goes up in the foggy mist of the usual misunderstandings and misconceptions, loosing the whole point and not connecting the mythological and cosmological dots. - Well understood Mythology and Cosmology should be that easy to tell that even a child could understand. This is not the case in this text - as also in the other texts regarding the Velikovski and the works of his followers. NB: In this test I've focused on the issues of Planetary and Milky Way deities and their mythological and cosmological connections and qualities. Regarding some Star Constellation deities, of course a constellation of Orion also must come in consideration when dealing with mythology. It is indeed remarkable that modern human beings and that the modern science have big, big troubles understanding the otherwise supposed ancestral "primitive knowledge"! It really raises the question of the genuine and natural intelligence level of modern human beings. If someone thinks there is a real mystery in understanding the Myths and other human matters, it's because of lacking the natural ability to observe the Nature - and even more because of a huge intellectual and scientific "besserwissen"-neglect of the genuine spiritual Wisdom of our Ancestors. Allinge, Bornholm, Denmark July 1, 2009 Ivar Nielsen Natural Philosopher nielsen.ivar@gmail.com TOP ______________________________________________________________ Every time a Roman Planetary deity is mentioned in the Saturn Myth, just insert a Milky Way Deity in stead in order to get the right Mythological explanation from the Mythological stories all over the World.