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The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)
<./viewtopic.php?f=13&t=392&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a>
Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged
bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable
conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified
theory of world mythology possible?
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The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2) <#p3672>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=3672#p3672>by *David Talbott
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58>* on Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:31 pm
[5-4-08: Please note that the first portion of this submission has been
removed in order to expand the content. It should be available shortly.
David Talbott]
This thread continues the discussion from "The Crowns of Sages and
Warrior Kings (Part 1)
" which
itself was a discussion of a sub-topic of "The Origins of Myth...
"
"The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)" discusses the
archetypes associated with the Venus discharge when seen off-axis.
To further illustrate the underlying unity of the symbolism, we need to
see what happens when the celestial object viewed is the rosette of
Venus, the 8-petaled flower. In the image below, the Greek Aphrodite
(Venus), having emerged from the body of displaced universal sovereign
Ouranos, floats on her scallop shell (the displaced view of the
discharging Venus). Also present is the rosette, the symbol of the
radial "full-flower" discharge with eight symmetrical streamers--
ScallopRosette.jpg <./download/file.php?id=402&mode=view>
A closer look at the rosette aligned with the scallop shell:
ScallopRosette(2).jpg <./download/file.php?id=496&mode=view>
The connection of the scallop shell to the radial discharge (rosette)
has not been forgotten. They are, in fact, two of the most common
symbols of the classical Venus. And yet, in nature as we know it, the
two symbolic objects have nothing in common, and the identification with
a planet, Venus, simply reduces the entire picture to absurdity. From
the vantage point of the model, however, the discharging Venus accounts
directly for both images, and in ways that can be readily tested. All
that changes is the number of discharge streamers and the vantage point
of the observer when the planets are moved off axis.
Here is the on-axis view of the rosette in our stylized 3-dimensional
reconstruction:
Planets with Venus 8-club flower-s.jpg <./download/file.php?id=403>
(40.83 KB) Downloaded 1456 times
And here is the form off axis:
7-headedSerpent.jpg <./download/file.php?id=404&mode=view>
It is indeed the underlying form of the Venus-scallop, just with fewer
flutes. But does the image look familiar to you? It is, in fact, the
form of another mythical personality, said to have floated on the cosmic
waters in the events that separated one world age from another. For the
Hindus and Buddhists, this was the great 7-headed Naga-serpent, whom we
see in both the "creation" legends and, later, as the throne of Buddha,
seen in simplified (archaic) form below:
NagaThrone.jpg <./download/file.php?id=405&mode=view>
Here is a modern painting, preserving key elements, including the
blossoming flower on which the figure rests (discharging star as plant
of life) and the coiled serpent of creation, which I intend to describe
in considerable detail:
7-headedNaga(4).jpg <./download/file.php?id=409&mode=view>
In fact, and for "unknown" reasons, the seven-headed serpent or dragon
occurs from Mesopotamia and Egypt to the Americas. Below is the Aztec
version, only slightly distorting the cosmic prototype"
7-headedDragon-Aztec.jpg <./download/file.php?id=411&mode=view>
But there is much more...
The Peacock Throne
To give further perspective on the underlying unity of the
imagery--radial discharge and displaced view of the same
discharge--consider the fascinating emblem below, preserved by the
Yezidis (concentrated in northern Iraq but also residing elsewhere in
rather small communities). Here again, we see the same form, but with a
different interpretation.
PeacockThrone.jpg <./download/file.php?id=410&mode=view>
Now the flutes appear as the tail of a peacock, but the artists have not
forgotten the relationship to the cosmic wheel, and even the original
crescent is present.
This is the "peacock throne" of the "Peacock Angel," Tawsi Melek. And
true to the archetype of the warrior-hero, he is not the universal
sovereign, but the vehicle of creation, the regent of the supreme god,
giving form to all that was brought forth in the event:
"The Yezidis do not believe that the Peacock Angel is the Supreme God.
The Supreme God created him as an emanation at the beginning of time. He
was brought into manifestation in order to give the invisible,
transcendental Supreme God a vehicle with which to create and administer
the universe."
http://www.yeziditruth.org/the_peacock_angel
So there is indeed much ground to cover. The test is to verify that the
unity beneath the great diversity of world myth and symbol can be
brought into the light of day.
David Talbott
(FMV 4-19-08: split "crowns" discussion into (part 1) and (part 2))
David Talbott <./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58>
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Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings <#p3737>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=3737#p3737>by *David Talbott
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58>* on Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:29 pm
The "Hand of God"
8-spokes.jpg <./download/file.php?id=415>
(42.94 KB) Downloaded 1323 times
The image above is a three-dimensional rendering, based on our model, of
the 8-spoked wheel of the Venus-discharge. When this formation is tilted
to represent an off-axis view it looks like this:
Planets with 5 club hand-small.jpg <./download/file.php?id=416>
(38.82 KB) Downloaded 1317 times
When I ask folks to tell me what they see, the most common response has
been “the five fingers of a hand.” (I’ve also applied this simple query
to other forms to confirm that selective perception, or force-fitting is
unnecessary in following our methodology. In virtually all cases, the
answers are those one would expect based on the most popular mythical
interpretations.)
If the 8-spoked radial discharge was also witnessed from an off-axis
position, we must ask if a symbolic “hand,” associated with the mother
goddess, has a role in the origins of world mythology and symbolism.
Amongst the ancient Egyptians, the goddess Iusaaset was an alter ego of
the popular goddesses Isis and Hathor. She bore an interesting title:
“the Hand of Atum.” Those who are familiar with the myth of Atum and the
first phase of creation will be well aware of the bizarre role of the
god’s “hand” in those events, which brought forth the goddess Tefnut and
the god Shu, the first active forms of the mother goddess and the
warrior-hero with the differentiation of Atum into three powers (Ra,
Tefnut, and Shu).
In fact, the mythic “hand of God” appears to be worldwide, and with
precisely the associations we should expect. Here is the Jain symbol
called Ahimsa, spelled out inside the Dharma-wheel in the palm of the hand:
Ahimsa.jpg <./download/file.php?id=417&mode=view>
Ahimsa is clearly connected to middle-eastern Arabic and Hebrew
variations, Hamsa or Khamsa, that Muslims came to call the “Hand of
Fatima,” or “Eye of Fatima,” and Jewish tradition came to name the “Hand
of Miriam.” Variations below:
Hamsa(1).jpg <./download/file.php?id=418&mode=view>
Anyone taking up an inquiry concerning the eye in the hand will have no
trouble confirming that in the general traditions the eye and the wheel
overlap in the general symbolism. Below are three examples from the
Korean "Book of a Thousand Hands":
Eye-hand_Korea.jpg <./download/file.php?id=421&mode=view>
Click on the image to see a larger version, and note the seated,
Buddha-like figure in the third picture, enthroned on the plant of life
and crowned by flames of fire. This is not the only instance of an
8-spoked wheel symbolically aligned with the image of a mystical
"eye-in-hand."
In the New World we find the same recurring concepts. The rock art image
below I had an opportunity to photograph in New Mexico ("Three Rivers,"
if I recall correctly)
HandNewMexico.jpg <./download/file.php?id=424&mode=view>
Also, the Haida of southeastern Alaska have preserved an attractive
variant of the same form:
Haida_EyeInHand.jpg <./download/file.php?id=431&mode=view>
Here is a fascinating form from "Moundville" in Alabama:
Eye-Hand_Moundville.jpg <./download/file.php?id=422>
(93.47 KB) Downloaded 1310 times
(The surrounding two-fold Oroboros, another global symbol, will only add
further confirmation as we take up this fascinating archetype.)
Also at Moundville, certain associations stand out, such as an enigmatic
link to symbolic birds:
Hand-Feathers.jpg <./download/file.php?id=428&mode=view>
From the interpretation of the discharge streamers as "feathers" and as
"fingers" of a hand, should we not expect to see the respective symbols
continually aligned in ways that make no sense apart from the celestial
referent? Indeed the specific forms of the "rays" displayed on the back
of the birds and inside the birds are the forms we get from the
displaced view of five- and four-rayed discharges respectively.
Now look at the bird figure below, a form presented with varying degrees
of artistic elaboration in the region:
WheeledFeathers_VeraCruz.jpg <./download/file.php?id=427&mode=view>
Remove the head and feet of the bird (which, if we are correct, the
artists added to align the design with the mythological interpretation
of the root form), and you would have the classic form of the
"wheel-in-the-hand."
Eyes and wheels, hands, and feathers, brought into juxtaposition, can
only appear as blind syncretism in the absence of a unifying reference.
Of course, one can imagine that within a particular cultural
environment, random combination of originally distinct symbols might
occur. But a process that is random could not have occurred again and
again with the same "irrational" details in opposite corner of the
earth. Can you think of anything in nature today that might inspire a
global image of an eye in a hand, or a wheel in a hand, or more
curiously, the constant juxtaposition of both?
The general correspondences are definitive. The goddess of the radiant
eye is also the nave and spokes of the cosmic wheel. And from the
displaced view, the 8-spoked wheel inspired the theme of the goddess as
a celestial “hand,” whose radiance was represented as five luminous
“fingers.” Thus, we see in the rock art from the Key Islands a direct
association of "hands" with discharging star images.
HandKeyIslands.jpg <./download/file.php?id=419&mode=view>
The connection is made more explicit by the simple "wheel-in-the-hands"
from Catal Huyuk in southern Turkey:
HandCatal.jpg <./download/file.php?id=420&mode=view>
Even the association of the fingers with the star of Venus is made
explicit in the Aztec image of Venus as a "half-star," complete with the
enclosed red sphere where we would expect to see it:
Half-starAztec.jpg <./download/file.php?id=429&mode=view>
In fact, the symbolic half-star of Venus answers very precisely to the
predictions of the model. Always remember that the discharge
configuration was rotating as the earth turned on its axis. One symbol
pointing to the displaced vantage point, for example, is the
warrior-skirt, which simply inverts the more usual "upright" position of
half-star. You can see this in the half-star worn as a skirt by the
dancing figure in this Aztec image:
Half-StarSkirt.jpg <./download/file.php?id=430&mode=view>
The fact that the figure also holds the half-star in his hand, and is
crowned by a six-rayed variant of the same star, while the image is
framed by other variations of the half-star, adds an exclamation point
to the power of the image.
David Talbott
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Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings <#p3780>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=3780#p3780>by *MGmirkin
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=55>* on Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:54 pm
David Talbott wrote:Always remember that the discharge configuration
was rotating as the earth turned on its axis.
[...]
David Talbott
To clarify, was it rotating at the SAME speed and in the same direction
as the Earth (would not appear to move?), or were they rotating at
different rates, in which case the formation would appear to
continuously shift, from our vantage point in relative [different]
motion to the event?
Just wondering,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to
explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings <#p3783>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=3783#p3783>by *David Talbott
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58>* on Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:56 pm
MGmirkin wrote:
David Talbott wrote:Always remember that the discharge
configuration was rotating as the earth turned on its axis.
To clarify, was it rotating at the SAME speed and in the same
direction as the Earth (would not appear to move?), or were they
rotating at different rates, in which case the formation would
appear to continuously shift, from our vantage point in relative
[different] motion to the event?
Just wondering,
The evidence suggests that the off-axis form was not always upright, and
that it visually rotated in some sense that is not entirely clear. In
other words, the rotation I'm referring to was not strictly synchronous
with the rotation of the Earth, at least in some phases. Artistic
tradition tended to prefer the upright orientation, and a somewhat
upright orientation can be maintained in three dimensional simulations
of possible off-axis relationships, though in other positions it will
rotate around a center in the fashion of the circumpolar Great Bear. A
little too complicated to attempt a summary at the moment.
David Talbott
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Chronological Order? <#p4840>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=4840#p4840>by *Lloyd
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=184>* on Tue May 06, 2008 6:12 pm
- I'm eager to learn in what order all these apparitions occurred, from
the beginning of the human race on Earth till the end of the Saturn Age.
- My recollection is that it was stated about the Saturn Model that
Saturn was originally seen as a dim reddish ball that stayed near the
horizon, then it went to the stationary polar position and turned a
golden color, then it became surrounded by a circular cloud, the
ouroboros, which was Venus circling it, then Venus moved to the center
of Saturn's face. I'm not clear on all that, but I'm less clear yet on
when Mars entered the picture. It seems agreed that Mars is much older
than Venus, maybe older than Earth too, but I don't know where it was
before Venus arrived.
- And it will excite me even more when we can start putting more exact
dates on all these events. As I recall, the best guesses were that the
Golden Age ended from 5 to 10 thousand years ago.
Lloyd <./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=184>
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Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2) <#p5967>
New post <./viewtopic.php?p=5967#p5967>by *Kapriel
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=136>* on Sat May 24, 2008 12:35 am
Re: the Aztec figure above:
It seems to me that the 'Mars-as-high-priest' figure is often given a
spotted garment, so this image is correct in yet another way.
The Egyptians did similarly- King Tut's burial chambers contained two
sets of spotted-skins; one a real skin, and one a manufactured
look-alike (pure gold spots on the latter, while on the real skin they
were black).
I confess I can't decide which of the various plasma-effects to
attribute the Martian spotted garment to. Celestial 'battle-scars' seems
a poor representation of its role as priest/servant, as do 'disease-pox'.
Kapriel <./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=136>
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