http://SaturnianCosmology.Org/ mirrored file
For complete access to all the files of this collection
	see http://SaturnianCosmology.org/search.php 
==========================================================

John Godowski 

SkepticTank <http://www.skeptictank.org/>

Skeptic Tank!

Another Velikovsky perspective (long)
Organization: Industrial Research Lab - Univ. of Florida
From: greg at irl.ise.ufl.edu (Greg O'Rear)
Message-ID: <23b5ni$3kk at bigguy.eng.ufl.edu>
Reply-To: godowski at ise.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: talk.origins 

I am posting this for a
friend, John Godowski (godowski at ise.ufl.edu). Please direct follow-ups
to him. This is a long post, so you might want to download it for later
perusal. This is offered for serious consideration, not merely
flame-bait, so of you take exception to what he writes, please answer
with specifics.

John's message follows:

This is my first contribution to
Talk.Origins, so a few words about myself and my perspective are in
order. (the rest may not be) In 1981 I was working at McDonnell Douglas
Astronautics Division, Titusville FL, near the Kennedy Space Center. I
was in the design engineering section and my drafting team was working
on a detonator assembly for a modified Israeli shoulder mounted rocket
launcher. On my own time, I was developing the foundation of my work in
legged robotic locomotion in the dynamic range. 

I had interest in
astronomy, geology, ancient history, languages, flight, military
science, music and especially robotics. I really enjoyed Carl Sagan's
Cosmos series. He brought the subjects to life and invited all to dream,
speculate and begin to consider the vastness of time and space. His
friendly hypnotic "Billions and Billions..." had an strong evocative
appeal, and I found him to say many things I would have said myself If I
had a show like that - - I even entertained thoughts of visiting Cornell
to hear him lecture! 

While at a weekend flea market, I saw a book that caught my eye. Its
title, WORLDS IN COLLISION, evoked thoughts of Saganistic speculations on
planetary formation processes billions and billions of years ago -
something I could really enjoy reading! Skipping the introductory
formalities, I wanted to catch a glimpse of the heart of the book to see
how interesting it might be, intending to go back to the beginning and see
how the thesis developed in detail if I found it interesting. (This might
mean I would have to buy the book, of course... a big $0.50 decision to be
made here ... )

I opened the book to somewhere in the middle, read about half a paragraph,
and I was stunned, astonished, and violently angered! No book had ever
before or since provoked such a violent response from me - I was furious!

Something about the planet Venus popping out of Jupiter in Recent Time! -
Like some warped version of a Greek myth gone literally mad -- written in
a scholarly tone no less! With Footnotes! That was even worse! How could
anyone with even the intelligence to put a decent sentence together
actually stoop so low as to write such a thing? Was he a Crackpot? Out of
his mind?

Didn't he know about the billions and billions of years and the nebular
theory of solar system formation? He couldn't have had an eighth grade
education and not known! Therefore he must have known this was Totally
False and Impossible before he ever put pen to paper.

He could not be excused for ignorance. Therefore he was Malicious! Think
of the damage to Science he is doing! By writing such horribly absurd
things - in a seemingly scholarly text - as though he meant to be taken
seriously - what will happen when people who are not scientists (or
engineering majors like me) read works like this - the work of a silver
tongued scientific sounding Charlatan! He will take us back to the Dark
Ages - He's trying to undermine Science! No regard at all for Truth!

What kind of character could someone have to do a thing like that? How did
he ever get published? This book shouldn't even exist! Who wrote this
anyway?

I noted the Author's name and burned it into first place in
my mental file of intellectual infamy. I actually threw the book back
down in anger and disgust. I walked away incensed at the thought that
something like that in the intellectual world could ever have been done
at all. I told myself I would never read anything else written by that
man.

* * * Work went well, and my abilities were attracting the
attention from people beyond my immediate supervisors.

* * * At home on
the Robotics Front, things were not so well. I knew enough fluid
mechanics to model the performance of the inner ear vestibular system,
and was astonished to find established medical authorities flagrantly
contradicting the laws of physics in their published accounts of the
workings of the inner ear. Didn't these doctors know Fluid Mechanics?
These are the authorities in their discipline - how could they be wrong?
I checked my own calculations again, even making some crude fluid
models. My understanding was correct, after all, and apparently these
doctors actually did not know what a Reynolds number was. Rather than be
happy that I had the correct concept after all, I was disturbed, uneasy.
I had trusted these authorities - I KNEW they would be correct when I
consulted their work - and they were not. Don't Doctors ever talk with
Engineers? The is no Interdisciplinary Review Board that synthesizes all
theories in each discipline into a consistent non-contradictory body of
authoritative knowledge. When it comes to investigating a matter of
concern to you, you may find, after sifting through the published
material, that you have a background or perspective that the authors of
the material did not have, and that you may actually have the "outsider"
expertise from another discipline that enables you to recognize an
inconsistency and actually correct it, making you the latest authority!
I guess there's a tendency to assume the authorities are correct in
their respective fields ALL the time, and that we are the only ones to
whom the established rationale does not make sense, therefore the
problem must be with us. There is even a tendency to supress the mental
beginnings of inconsistency recognition in established theories taught
in school as authoritative. Even the authorities themselves suffer from
this tendency when relying on the work of those in other disciplines. In
the years since I was to find this to be the case many times in
Robotics. My work has enabled me to envision legged robotic locomotion
in the dynamic range as a technical and computational feasability, and I
am currently pursuing that at the University of Florida. The consensus
of authority in this area is that it is virtually impossible, and
therefore not worth actively pursuing. Nonetheless, I am GETTING IT
DONE. More on this later.

* * * Back at the weapons design facility... I
was doing well, enjoying my work and the recognition I was getting for
my sincerity, enthusiasm and most satisfying to me, superior and
unprecedented zero rejection rate in a tolerance study I had performed.
I had recognized that this particular assembly did not have to have
inevitable rejections of adverse tolerance parts as is commonly
considered acceptable. In some cases RMS analysis can do no better and
still yield a functional result, but this was not such a case, as my
method of analysis showed, and the run confirmed. Late one afternoon,
the head of Engineering Design for the company came to my desk. Everyone
had gone home. He said there was a favor he would ask of me. He was very
serious, and I could tell it was important. Here was a senior design
Engineer in the Astronautics division, the kind of person I envisioned
myself becoming in the future , and I could really learn something from
the experience this project would give. It involved a lot of reading and
some extra work and research. Would I be willing? Career minded and
genuinely interested in engineering, I was willing, imagining a thick
technical manual and hours of specs referencing - not a problem!
Whatever it was, I would do it. He then proceded to place said reading
material on my desk. It was not a technical manual or a Military
Standard. It was not a government document or project history. It was
simply a book. The title of the book was, to my shock - WORLDS IN
COLLISION!

* * * That was thirteen years ago. I did read the book, many,
many times since then, and have done many hours of research on my own
and in long time collaboration with an engineer in Jacksonville. I have
read all of Velikovsky's published works and own multiple copies of
nearly everything I am aware of written by or about his work and related
subjects. I have conversed and corresponded with several of these
authors, as well as faculty at the University who regularly provide me
with late breaking scholarly news that impinges on what now must be
called the debate. I am preparing several articles for publication in
CATASTROPHISM AND ANCIENT HISTORY and THE VELIKOVSKIAN. I intend to give
T.O readers an advance preview of my works for informal criticism and
who knows - possibly even some support and encouragement and the
possibility of collaboration in the future. I have been monitoring the
interaction on T.O for a short while, and I enjoy watching the fur fly
now and then! I have found even the most scathing criticisms
entertaining and very well done - very creative! I even enjoy reading
Carl Sagan - for different reasons than before - now I am still overcome
by wonder and awe when I read his works - (Broca's Brain, Cosmos, etc.)
especially as they talk about Velikovskian issues. This time though, the
wonder and awe are not for the vast expanses of billions of stars and
billions of years, but for the wild flights of fantasy and unfounded
assertion piled on contradiction compounded with the self assured
inerrancy that can be fostered when your clique is in authority and the
press reviews are orchestrated ahead of time. [even if after twenty
years you still haven't learned how to spell 'pharaoh'] Sagan professes
very wonderful ethics and values for truth and I believe there is some
sincerity there. I really do. Some. But when it comes to Velikovsky
these professions of values only seem to set the stage for the kind of
poetic straw bashing that only Sagan is capable of. [Not to say that
some don't come close - some of those on T.O. are really very good -- I
am filled with wonder and awe! Really!] Nonetheless, Sagan, like
everyone else, is a human being. I understand him. I do like him still -
I remember my moment with WORLDS IN COLLISION at the flea market, and if
not for my Boss at Astronautics Div. I probably would have followed in
Sagan's shoes, at least as far as Velikovsky's ideas are concerned. Now,
my time at the flea market was followed not long after by my
conversation with my boss, and I was able to read WORLDS IN COLLISION
with different eyes. Each of us has a boss, if ultimately only our own
conscience. Perhaps Sagan will yet have that conversation... I know how
difficult that can be, to actually consider restructuring the basis for
so much of what you like to think you actually KNOW already... yet the
effort is worth it, and I invite everyone on T.O. to begin... I do enjoy
a good wrestling match for its entertainment value - the hype - the
posturing, the preorchestrated bouts - the big falls, the screams of the
crowd, the press coverage, etc. But it's not REAL, it's done to
entertain and amuse. Enjoy it, but recognize it for what it is - a
pursuit of mock sparring for fun.. I see a lot of that here on T.O. and
I do enjoy it. Straw men don't feel pain..... ? But... I have seen much
that actually inspires me on T.O. Acker is willing to check Talbott
Burns has some good questions Holden is holding out alone for
Dr.Velikovsky (M.D. if you didn't know) and Merritt and Thompson and
others have been kind enough in their own style to explicitly delineate
every single conceivable objection or obstacle to Dr. V's theory - a
valuable service to Pro V's - to whom such thoughts might not always
occur, not that honest Pro V's don't look for possible problems and
address them, but that some Pro S(agan)'s really have a talent for
pointing out problems of all kinds (real and perhaps imaginary)
especially with Dr. V's theory. This talent for agressive skepticism is
something I take note of, and it has its value. What happens when every
last concern so enumerated is addressed in favor of Velikovsky? After
winning such a fight, it would be an astounding triumph especially
considering the talent of the opposition. Sometimes the peasants are
right though... - (remember the meteor fall at L'Aigle {SP?} France ...
I would invite the Aggressively Skeptic to consider mentally reversing
roles, just for fun, and applying that same skepticism to Sagan and the
Non Velikovskian scenarios that are so prevalent. That would be exciting
reading! And, of course, to be good sports, the Pro V's might consider
writing their own scathing criticism of Dr. V's theory, just to see how
the other shoe fits for a minute. Having worn both shoes, I can promise
everyone it would be worthwhile! And an interesting proof of
objectivity! Even a test of creativity! In school debates, we would
switch sides and argue convincingly from the oponent's point of view -
and win both ways! As a final introductory note, by taking part in the
T.O. debate, each party is willing to be exposed to ideas that may
change her mind {where are the women?} and has the thrill of seeing how
well her ideas thrive on their own in the arena before the pressures of
publication and career consequences enter in as factors on what is said.
Treasure the opportunity. On T.O. count me as someone willing to
consider Velikovsky's scenario and all its implications. Consider, and
keep checking... always! If you had to ask me now, I would have to say I
do believe Velikovsky to be correct, original, and profoundly
significant. Having said that I ask - Where are those who can at least
mentally stand on the mountain of material Dr. V has presented, as
though true, and see what is on the farther horizon brought thus into
view? Count me, if you will, among these. JOHN GODOWSKI
------------------------------------------------------------ Some items
on the farther horizon I hope to address... JUPITER: STELLAR IGNITION
REACTION A critical mass (accretionary or impact triggered) begins the
thermonuclear reaction in the dense Jovian core. The reaction proceeds
without limit in this dense medium until its energy exceeds Jovian
gravitational containment and a conic section of overlying Jovian
atmosphere with attending petrochemicals (perhaps even Sagans blimp
sized 'floaters' who knows?) is ejected along with a molten portion of
Jupiter's possible rocky and metallic core. Plasma states reached,
radioactive decay, parent daughter ratios affected by differential
volatility in space, these molten plasma to vapor to droplets to
'tesimals to protoplanet coalesce en route to the inner solar system as
the protoplanet Venus (veni, vidi, vici Latin : I arrived, I viewed; I
became the victor --I came I saw I conquered;- Venus=newcomer) The
protoplanet is truly a comet of massive proportions. Note that a comet
is defined from the Greek (hair). Even this comma, the punctuation mark
that looks like a period but has a tail hanging down, is named for hair
and can be seen as a pictograph of a comet, if you are willing and
imaginitive. How can I say a planet the size of Venus was a comet? Any
substellar celestial object with a stream of particles and gases or
plasma in its train is a comet, irrespective of the size of the nucleus,
or the composition of the particles, gases and plasma. Of course, a
protoplanet like this, trailing an immense shroud of Jovian gases
expelled with it but not captured by it creates quite a show. It would
not be correct to say that because the particles were not made of ice,
like the tiny ice comets we are familiar with, that it was not a comet,
or that because its nucleus is planetary in size and mass, that it was
not seen as a comet by earthbound observers. The term comet is a
descriptive term anyway (it looks like it has hair, basically) and would
certainly apply to a protoplanetary spectacle such as this. These
attendant gases and particles might orbitally follow the protoplanet for
a few centuries until the pressure of the solar wind can dissipate them.
If the tail is charged, its plasma may luminesce, and magnetic forces
would effect its behavior and configuration. Back on Jupiter, a hot
gaping hole in the core, a thermal ejection scar continues by convective
upwelling to generate the seed of a vertical vortex known as the Red
Spot. It has been implied that any banded atmosphere such as that of
Jupiter might tend under the laws of Fluid Mechanics and turbulence to
have such a sustained vortex. This is possible, yet possibility is not
proof, and further work would be needed to explain why the other gas
planets do not also have their spots, if subject to the same fluid
conditions (scientifically, an atmosphere can be treated as a fluid for
mathematical analysis) If the turbulent dynamic model of red spot
sustenance is a valid factor, it may not be the sole factor in keeping
the Spot alive. It would be interesting to see such work (fluid flow
models) done for the Jovian atmosphere that could take into account such
a rising thermal ejection scar plume as an element in sustaining such a
vortex and perhaps explaining its coloration as due to materials present
lower in the Jovian atmospheric column. Also, why is there not a Red
Spot in both the northern and the southern Jovian hemispheres if by
symmetry the flow parameters are identical? This too appears to argue
for composite cause for the Spot. Worthy of note, Mars is covered with
red dust (limonite) which Dr. V. suggests may not be indigenous. The Red
Nile of the Exodus implies nonindigenous pigmentation at least as a
transient phenomena. The Venusian comet tail could have been a source,
in this scenario. Red Spot, Red Mars, Red Nile - same material, all from
same place. Not because they are all red - certainly there are at least
a few things in this solar system that are red, yet not from Jupiter. I
am saying that the red material could have been deposited as Mars and
Earth, respectively, passed through Venus's tail (no longer extant)
which may have contained red matter from Jupiter. Earth passing through
this tail of varied composition experienced on a global scale the
ensuing ecological features remembered in the Exodus account. The
nucleus of the comet/protoplanet/-- Venus was the last to approach Earth
, so we can infer that Venus in this scenario must have approachaed
Earth from the sunward side. The sun tends to drive comet tails away
from itself. Earth would then be 'downwind' in the solar wind sense, and
the tail gases of the comet would contact earth. Arriving from the sun
side, the protoplanet, tail and all, would be invisible to everyone on
earth, exactly as the new moon, very close (yet not touching or
overlapping the sun's disc) is in the sky all day, yet not seen, except
at sunset. The electrical effects, the meteors, dust, red pigment and
increased tidal flow would come from a source useen in the glare of the
daytime sun. In a scenario I am developing, Venus approached from below
the earth's equator to the south. As the Nucleus approached the earth
entered the Umbra(shadow) and Penumbra(strong shadow) of Venus for the
days of darkness reported in Exodus and Egyptian sources (Ismailia
stele, or Naos of El Arish). Venus makes its closest passover or flyby
(hence the name of the Easter feast - Passover means literally to pass
over, and can be understood as an astronomical term, like the modern
word 'flyby'. Passover and Easter are associated. Note EASTER = E'aster
(Chald. for the great or terrible STAR {or planet}) The Venus and Tail
spectacle would not be visible in the Northern hemisphere of earth until
after its close flyby or passover. Approaching from south sunward, after
flyby it must by the law of velocity be north antisunward. This would
let the light of the sun reflect from the Venus & Tail comet planet and
be visible around the clock, both day and night. It would, hanging over
our northern hemisphere,(not stationarily hanging - impossible - but
following its Keplerian orbital trajectory over the hemisphere as just
one part of its elliptical path around the sun allowing for disturbances
in the vicinity of Earth) be visible as are the North Star and the
circumpolar constellations all night long, and being lit by the sun,
visible all day as is the moon at certain times. This is the Pillar of
Fire - Hand of God - Chinese Dragon or whatever you make of it -
protocometplanetVenus. Its Tail pointing always away from the sun,
except as it (in red and green writhing curtains) interacts with the Van
Allen radiation belts and creates Auroral displays. This lasts only a
week, then the planet must cross back inside Earth's orbit to continue
its elliptical path. It must therefore have another close encounter or
flyby, this time, on the night side , crossing from north to south, and
from west to east. (single trajectory passing from above N. hemisphere
to below, hence N - S, and overtaking earth from the west quickly even
passing by faster than we rotate in the same direction, hence W - E) The
pillar of Fire was not visible immediately after this second flyby. The
second flyby occasioned the crossing of the Sea by Moses. ( The physical
dynamics and location of the Sea Crossing are my next topic.) On my
envisioning of Velikovsky's Jovian Expulsion Scenario--- Critical
Questions to be addressed: - heavy core for Jupiter? - radioactive ?
critical mass possible? - behavior of nuclear reaction in dense core ?
Will it dissipate as do our underground tests - or propagate due to
density, radioactivity? - critical mass possible by accretion? -
subcritical mass to critical by impact? -Convective Red Spot Thermal
Expulsion Scar plausible? Fluid Simulation? Note on Antarctic meteors
from Mars[?] they may not be from Mars proper, but from Venus directly,
same source for Mars'red rocks, or Maruts, see WinC. - artificial
detonation? We could contemplate this ourselves, to 'induce labor' so to
speak, and generate new earth sized protoplanets at will under
controlled conditions. --the Godowski Project-- I should write a novel?
- earth produced by same process? Note White Spot also on Jupiter Red
Spot = New Venus birth scar, White Spot=Old Earth birth Scar hence, Red
Spot transient, will turn white- just watch! time interval red to white
as clock on earth age since birth in this scenario. Many other factors -
localized core property as red source, atmosphere band distribution of
Red, etc. But Red to White with age (also smaller) appears consistent
with diminishing thermal scar convective activity. Wait and see, you
heard it here first!? (at least I believe I am first to say this, let me
keep checking - as always) - Diminishing mass of successive ejecta -
mass to be ejected a function of gravitational containance, hence of
remaining host planet mass. Host planet mass diminished by successive
expulsions, hence successive ejecta smaller. (Venus smaller than Earth)
calculation check on this: is
(massEarth-massVenus)/(massEarth)=MassJupiter/(MassJupiter+massVenus) or
explainably close based on reaction dynamics? Do you follow any of this?
Do I explain too much? not enough? I hope the way I described this
scenario will help answer some of the questions posted on T.O. that I
have read recently. Such as how can venus be a comet - its not small and
not made of ice? If you still have a question \ on that let me know how
I can make it more clear... I've found a reading of WORLDS IN COLLISION
is a new experience each time... ... first you get through the violent
rejection ridicule anger stage I.(me at the flea market) then, should
you choose to progress, you get to the gee I see people who really
should know taking this stuff seriously - lemme read it stage II.(me
after talking with my boss at McD Astro) then you get an initial
familiarity, stage III.(ok lemme see he says Jupiter popped out of .. no
wait Venus was an asteroi... no wait What?? Huh? the Bible says what? no
way! lemme read that again) then you move on and read it again and get
it straight, but it doesn't sink in (yeah got it Jupiter>Venus bumps
into Earth and Mars gets into the act wild stuff Moses Joshua Hezekiah
Tirhakah Tiamat Rahab Hobab Aminadab Anat it's almost poetry you get it
down) then it hits you it almost sneaks up on you yes, its W in C stage
V(five) or is it V for the Dr? You start seeing the celestial spectacle,
feeling the earth rumble, feeling the terror, your hair stands on end,
you see the darkeness the low shrouded sky, you hear the wail of the
dying and shrieks of the bereaved drowned beneath the deafening din of
barad at reentry thundering sonic booms and a chorus of Terrestrial
Theremin tumbling mountains smoking ruins feeble futility of sacrifice
in vain displaced destitutes trudge beneath low gray clouds through
lifeless grain and huddle helpless against the hurricane the ground
breaks open and sends flame to the skies and flaming stones are heaven's
replies -you tremble and you begin to realize - I recognize this - I
recognize this! --in some crazy inexplicable way this resonates with
something deep in the core of your being - it is Familiar! Note: when
you hit stage V you're ready for MANKIND IN AMNESIA - interesting, for
me stage V hit before I knew of MANKIND IN AMNESIA I began working out
the salient points myself when I found the book - I could nearly have
written it! Which brings me to stage VI you read it AGAIN, this time
integrating everything at your disposal to envision the physical
mechanisms involved, you go out of your way mentally to see it, to
inhabit that universe, look around, see it happening, and come back and
check for consistency, for evidence of what you saw, in addition to what
was written, you go back and forth between the WORLDS IN COLLISION
scenario in your mind, which by now is like a familiar dreamworld the
redding sky the wandering hordes, and the printed and video record of
everything scientific you have ever learned and you find, time after
time the most learned in each profession even against their very will
and persistent training admitting between the lines that the evidence is
too much to escape from by scientific means so denial, culling, the
bell, book and candle, the academic inquisition must be called in to
play, with economic boycotts of the company that published the book
(doesn't this sound a bit like the fundamentalists boycotting P & G a
few years back?) calling for and securing the dismissal of any who dared
use their profession to advance the new view e.g. Atwater at the
Planetarium.. Orchestrated false reviews and scathing criticisms of a
book admittedly unread (doesn't this sound a bit like the
fundamentalists berating the unseen Last Temptation of Christ a few
years back?{saw it - beautiful - not sacreligious at all a must see -
Jesus makes execution stakes for the Romans in his fathers shop and has
nightmares about being forced to die on one of his own products - Mary
Magdalene turns to prostitution after He rejects her - He blames Himself
- a human novel! On the cross in delerium he imagines.. no he 's THERE
.. back with Mary before she went bad... Like Jimmy Stewart in Wonderful
life he sees how things would have been IF.......}) and continual
omissions and denials of evidence that could be construed as confirming
the Dr. V scenario, while the Rev. Sagan still is on the preaching
circuit warning women and children to beware the evils of Velikovsky
will this ever end? When does truth prevail? It has ever been thus..
Noah no one listened.. the prophets killed rather than heeded,
imprisoned, lied about, Jesus - not met with official sanction by the
religious officials, Copernicus, Galileo imprisoned "but it moves"
still! Torquemada in '92 all Jews out! Pogroms, Nazi Science, Holocaust
Hibakusha(survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki) Martin Luther King, the
Kennedys Ukranian Winter of Stalin Korea VietNam Bosnia China still...
still .. there is hope.. the Soviet Union is no more, somehow in history
America came to exist, we've walked the moon & seen the farthest stars
and landed craft on Venus & Mars (" are allright.. TONIGHT,.. sleep
tight child, sleep tight" Lyrics Beatles Venus & Mars Album) Einstein
couldn't see how helicopters would be controlled --Lord Kelvin called
Konrad Roentgen a Charlatan .. and so it goes So is all of this anything
unusual? Not really. What do we do? Get all the data you can, see what
EVERYONE says (authorities AND peasants) recognize that notions contrary
to established Dogma will not be printed or supported directly and
evidence will be supressed and even well meaning people help to conceal
and are deceived themselves and this is nothing new and our time is not
special and we are no better than our forbears and if you want to see
what is really going on you are just going to have to honestly look into
it yourself and not take someone else's word for it and not fool
yourself into thinking you've done that already and so convince yourself
that you can stop checking... you can never stop checking if the price
of freedom is eternal vigilance the price of knowledge is continual
questioning If you are among the YOUNG AND IMAGINATIVE WHO DARE
(chronological age irrelevant here) then you too may notice something
new, or question where others pass by sure of their way, and from the
wisdom thereby gained , yet change the world and advance human
knowledge. Don't expect to be recognized or compensated though, even by
your friends here at T.O. necessarily at first... as Charles Fair said
of Velikovsky , his ideas may all prove correct, but SCIENCE WILL NEVER
LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT --"IT WILL SEE HIM DEAD FIRST" so Charles was
not Fair after all BUT as Velikovsky was fond of saying ....DARE! I've
got to go..future discussion MOSES AND THE RED SEA YES, THE WATER REALLY
SPLIT, TWO WALLS OF WATER PILLAR OF FIRE, EAST WIND AND EVERYTHING! (I'm
an engineer, not just a mystic) I explained it to a Rabbi in
Jacksonville FL who is familiar with all the related midrash
(extrabiblical legendary material) he did not mention any conflicts
withthe midrashim and said that "it's BETTER THAN CECIL B. DE MILLE -
ITS BELIEVABLE" why the other explanations don't work LOCATION OF THE
CROSSING SITE - Until I can write, I recommend you read The Mountain of
Moses - Larry Williams Noah's Ark: read The Ark of Noah - David Fasold
The VELIKOVSKY CHRONOLOGY Just wait till I get Adam Stuart on the
Network; we've been proofing Velikovsky's chronology for the past three
and a half years - so in the meantime, if you have any chronology
questions ask we-re into it heavily (don't dwell only on astronomy, as
though every last detail must be proven there before moving on to
chronology, if ever. Actually, the INTERDISCIPLINARY APPROACH is best -
findings in chronology may have great bearing on the astronomy (Martian
meteors in Antarctica - remember? ) Pursue Velikovsky on all fronts at
once! How did Velikovsky ever come to do this stuff anyway? He was
checking up on Freud - and disagreed with everything he said - but
developed this scenario as a result of what he learned in the process -
so whether you agree or disagree check it out - who knows what you'll
come up with? I must close - keep 'holden' on Ted - there's another Pro
V on the net! more later - you have no idea!!!!! 'till next time I'll
let you know when I get the Robot Running.. literally.. ---------JOHN
GODOWSKI--------- -- Greg O'Rear (orear at ise.ufl.edu) Industrial and
Systems Engineering, University of Florida
==================================================================

---

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank <mailto:frice at skeptictank.org>