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Physics of the Saturnian Theory <./viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2465&start=0>
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Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26663>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26663#p26663>by *mharratsc
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=780>* » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:24 pm
I just got through reading Mr. Talbott's
[url2=http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2238]Forensics
of Comparative Mythology[/url2] (excellent reading), and it occurred to
me that- whereas I do understand the basics of the physics described for
the evolution of the Saturnian theory- I've never really heard it
expounded upon.
Topics like:
1. Would Saturn have 'given birth' to Venus when it was still a star, or
did it occur while it was a gas giant? Charge equalization events were
still being seen in recorded human history- I presume that modern man
arrived after Venus' birth or else we'd have seen entries of the event
in the annals of myth.
2. Was the alignment relative to Saturn indicative of planetary ages?
Would Earth be the oldest of the siblings then? Why the huge disparity
between the compositions of the three planets? Why does 'old' Earth have
such a diverse composition, and yet 'younger' Mars looks like an ancient
wasteland?
3. What was the geometry of the 'capture event'? Given 'the eternal
purple twilight of day' myth- was Earth forcibly removed from Saturn's
stellar atmosphere? Did it immediately land at the orbital radius we
currently occupy, giving us enough heat for life to continue without
major adaptation?
Just wondering if any of this stuff had been covered somewhere already,
and if so- where could I find it?
Mike H.
Mike H.
"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me,
for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." --
Michael A. Harrington
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26664>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26664#p26664>by *moses
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116>* » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:08 pm
Might I suggest that we start a "Saturn System" section of the forum.
Seems the "mad ideas" keeps people from posting in the "new ideas"
section and the speculation involved in this subject makes it undesirable
for the other sections.
Mo
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26672>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26672#p26672>by *davesmith_au
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=53>* » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 pm
Mike I know it's difficult to supress all the natural questions which
first arise when giving thought to the Saturn theory, but on the face of
it it appears such a preposterous proposition that it needs careful
explaining to be given any consideration at all.
Unfortunately every time we've entertained forum discussion of the
theory, others have quickly jumped in with their "superior
understanding" or a "better theory" of their own, which quickly
denegrates proper discussion of the theory concerned.
I would ask for patience - which I know we've asked for plenty of times
before - as Dave Talbott is very close to having finished the first
segment of Symbols of an Alien Sky. This has been developed from the
rough-cut versions posted to You-Tube with changes according to the
feedback he has received.
The questions you ask may or may not even be answered to any degree yet,
and until people understand the full nature of the work, open discussion
of those sorts of questions leads quickly into speculation which is far
removed from any scientific or forensic methodology, and thus the impact
or implications of the theory are lost amongst the flood of "my theory
is ... " which inevitably follows.
For those who have a genuine interest in knowing more about the theory,
first wait until the Symbols (part 1) is published, and then perhaps
some properly constrained discussion may be entertained. And then also
people will be able to see why the Saturn theory is linked so explicitly
with Electric Universe theory.
Cheers, Dave.
"Those who fail to think outside the square will always be confined
within it" - Dave Smith 2007
Please visit PlasmaResources
Please visit Thunderblogs
Please visit ColumbiaDisaster
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26681>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26681#p26681>by *StevenJay
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=261>* » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:47 am
davesmith_au wrote:For those who have a genuine interest in knowing
more about the theory, first wait until the Symbols (part 1) is
published, and then perhaps some properly constrained discussion may
be entertained. And then also people will be able to see why the
Saturn theory is linked so explicitly with Electric Universe theory.
A few years ago, I purchased the Remembering the End of the World DVD,
not realizing until after the fact that it was made before the electric
universe connection had been made. At first, I was a bit put off by
that, but I quickly got over it. I figured, ah well, it's a tidbit of
financial support for, what I consider to be, a good cause (not too many
of those around these days). The point is, I was immediately enthralled
by the theory being presented and, having already plunged headlong into
the concepts of EU and PC in general, I easily made the connection
between David's ST and the EU.
I agree with others here that a Saturn Theory board should eventually be
made available with the same guidelines that are required of most of the
other boards. Meaning that any postings that deviate from those
guidelines simply get moved to the NIAMI board (or simply axed when
appropriate). Even though there's already quite a bit of info on the
subject available, a LOT of questions still arise (many of which will
undoubtedly remain permanently in the domain of educated conjecture). So
I, for one, am really looking forward to the release of part one and its
discussion! :)
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26703>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26703#p26703>by *moses
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116>* » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:59 pm
Let's say that Jno Cook can't resist a discussion of the Saturn System
and joins the forum and posts to the Saturn Theory board. Now he has
developed a theory that in many or most ways differs from Dave T's
theory. Does his postings get put on the NIMI section or ejected ?
Do planet X people get similar treatment ? After all, there is a
connection between planet X and the Saturn System. Just exactly what
are we afraid of in an uncensored discussion ? The Saturn System goes
to the heart of all religions, and will cause pain to many people.
To say that our father in heaven means Saturn in the sky in olden days
is sure to upset people. Does this mean we have to pussy-foot around ?
No pain - no gain !
Mo
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26706>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26706#p26706>by *Lloyd
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=184>* » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:11 pm
Mike:
Physics of the Saturnian Theory
I just got through reading Mr. Talbott's Forensics of Comparative
Mythology (excellent reading), and it occurred to me that- whereas I
do understand the basics of the physics described for the evolution
of the Saturnian theory- I've never really heard it expounded upon.
Topics like:
1. Would Saturn have 'given birth' to Venus when it was still a
star, or did it occur while it was a gas giant? Charge equalization
events were still being seen in recorded human history- I presume
that modern man arrived after Venus' birth or else we'd have seen
entries of the event in the annals of myth.
2. Was the alignment relative to Saturn indicative of planetary
ages? Would Earth be the oldest of the siblings then? Why the huge
disparity between the compositions of the three planets? Why does
'old' Earth have such a diverse composition, and yet 'younger' Mars
looks like an ancient wasteland?
3. What was the geometry of the 'capture event'? Given 'the eternal
purple twilight of day' myth- was Earth forcibly removed from
Saturn's stellar atmosphere? Did it immediately land at the orbital
radius we currently occupy, giving us enough heat for life to
continue without major adaptation?
* Velikovsky was first, I think, to suggest that Venus was "born" within
the last few thousand years from one of the gas giants. He felt that
myths do suggest that humans witnessed its birth. He thought it was
ejected from Jupiter, while the Thunderbolts team members seem largely
to consider that it was ejected either from Saturn, or it's a toss-up
between any of the gas giants, or that it simply became visible during
the Saturn Age.
* I haven't heard anyone suggest that the alignment of the planets under
Saturn during the Saturn Age, with Venus close to Saturn, Mars next and
Earth farthest away, all in a line under the south pole of Saturn, was
in order of age. So the ages of Mars and Earth aren't clear, except that
they're obviously considerably over 5,000 years old. Cardona has said
that humans witnessed flareups of Saturn as far back as 20,000 years at
least. The last flareup, maybe 5,000 years ago, saw Saturn transition
from a brown dwarf star to a gas giant in the Solar System. The
atmospheres of Earth and Mars appear to be under 50,000 years old, based
on the abundance of radioactive nitrogen at Mars and the abundance of
helium in Earth's atmosphere. It's interesting that today's TPOD
acknowledges that Mercury may be only ten thousand years old or even
less, based on the fact that it still has a thin atmosphere.
* I think Cardona's or Talbott's idea is that the last flareup of Saturn
occurred when Saturn reached the orbit of the asteroid belt. At that
point the Earth may have flipped over, putting Jupiter on Saturn's
throne [from an Earthly perspective], and within a few centuries the
system broke up completely. Jupiter and Saturn would then have moved out
to more distant orbits, while the small planets moved to inner orbits.
Earth would then have gone through a cooling period on its way from the
protective environment of Saturn at the orbit of the asteroid belt on
its way to the present orbit. This info comes mostly from the magazine,
Kronos, published in the late 70s through early 80s and other sources.
One good source is http://kronia.com/thoth.html .
* You can also get a lot of tidbits of info from Thornhill's site,
http://holoscience.com
& http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 7557fadcb8
etc.
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26714>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26714#p26714>by *StevenJay
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=261>* » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:34 am
moses wrote:Let's say that Jno Cook can't resist a discussion of the
Saturn System and joins the forum and posts to the Saturn Theory
board. Now he has
developed a theory that in many or most ways differs from Dave T's
theory. Does his postings get put on the NIMI section or ejected ?
I would think that it would depend on the methodology used to arrive at
said theory. If it's mostly opinion-based, or arrived at via a tiny
sampling of "evidence" gleened from a very limited investigation, then,
in a word, "Yes." The internet is literally awash with material authored
by folks who think "research" involves nothing more than a few Google
searches and that's it. :roll:
moses wrote: Just exactly what are we afraid of in an uncensored
discussion ?
Well, as DS pointed out:
on the face of it [the Saturn Theory] appears such a preposterous
proposition that it needs careful explaining to be given any
consideration at all.
So, as I see it, it comes down to credibility and focus. If someone
joined this forum for the express purpose of expounding on the merits of
mainstream gravity-centric cosmology while, at the same time, deriding
the EU model, that person and his input would be subject to the very
same fate.
I'm a pretty opinionated guy, as many of my posts here clearly
illustrate. But even I can appreciate the value of admin's position on
this. And I'm not just saying that because I happen to give the ST a lot
of credence. This is one of the most open, honest and intelligent forums
I've ever experienced, which I find to be very refreshing. I, for one,
would like to see it remain that way.
Also, having one's material moved to the NIAMI board isn't meant as some
sort of punishment. It's merely a means of keeping other boards and
threads on track and focused.
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26776>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26776#p26776>by *moses
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116>* » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:34 pm
So, as I see it, it comes down to credibility and focus. If someone
joined this forum for the express purpose of expounding on the merits of
mainstream gravity-centric cosmology while, at the same time, deriding
the EU model, that person and his input would be subject to the very
same fate.
StevenJay
Why would a Saturn System section be dedicated to newcomers to the idea ?
Just make a newbies subsection. The great depth of the implications of the
Saturn System needs consideration. And then there is the nailing down of
the detail of the configuration and the interactions of the planets in this
configuration. It is painful stuff and bound to produce conflict, but way
too important to let such matters control the expression and consideration
of all things involved in the Saturn System.
Mo
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26833>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26833#p26833>by *mharratsc
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=780>* » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:37 pm
Wowzers- didn't realize I'd open up such a can of worms here! :shock:
I can understand literally everyone's perspectives posted here, and I'll
certainly defer to wiser heads in the matter about which direction to
take the whole line of questioning.
I guess I was just sort of anticipating some general musings on the
general physics of how everything could've broken up and realigned and
whatnot, I dunno... :\
Regardless, I appreciate the candor of the replies ('specially Dave) and
I'll do my best to hold my curiousity while answers are sorted out! ;)
Mike H.
Mike H.
"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me,
for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." --
Michael A. Harrington
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26850>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26850#p26850>by *junglelord
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=80>* » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:50 am
davesmith_au wrote:Mike I know it's difficult to supress all the
natural questions which first arise when giving thought to the
Saturn theory, but on the face of it it appears such a preposterous
proposition that it needs careful explaining to be given any
consideration at all.
Unfortunately every time we've entertained forum discussion of the
theory, others have quickly jumped in with their "superior
understanding" or a "better theory" of their own, which quickly
denegrates proper discussion of the theory concerned.
I would ask for patience - which I know we've asked for plenty of
times before - as Dave Talbott is very close to having finished the
first segment of Symbols of an Alien Sky. This has been developed
from the rough-cut versions posted to You-Tube with changes
according to the feedback he has received.
The questions you ask may or may not even be answered to any degree
yet, and until people understand the full nature of the work, open
discussion of those sorts of questions leads quickly into
speculation which is far removed from any scientific or forensic
methodology, and thus the impact or implications of the theory are
lost amongst the flood of "my theory is ... " which inevitably follows.
For those who have a genuine interest in knowing more about the
theory, first wait until the Symbols (part 1) is published, and then
perhaps some properly constrained discussion may be entertained. And
then also people will be able to see why the Saturn theory is linked
so explicitly with Electric Universe theory.
Cheers, Dave.
Wise words from a wise man.
cheers brother.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have
a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot
Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26871>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26871#p26871>by *Lloyd
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=184>* » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:26 pm
* Mike, I responded to all 3 of your initial questions. Aren't my
answers of any interest?
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26888>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26888#p26888>by *nick c
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62>* » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:20 pm
hi Mike,
Just wondering if any of this stuff had been covered somewhere
already, and if so- where could I find it?
For starters and easy on line access try:
[url2=http://www.kronia.com/thoth.html]Thoth Newsletter[/url2].
There is wealth of information on the Saturn theory and its'
intracacies. Especially, Talbott's series', "Saturn Theory, Overview"
and "Velikovsky's Comet Venus" as well as numerous other articles.
Otherwise in published material, there is Cardonna's God Star and Flare
Star.
Numerous articles in the journals Aeon and Kronos.
nick c
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26928>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26928#p26928>by *allynh
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=454>* » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:08 pm
I just saw this on BBC World News America.
New ring around Saturn. 8m miles in diameter and 3m miles wide, only
visible in the infrared.
How well do we know the planets in our galaxy? Saturn is the one
with the mysterious and rather beautiful rings.
But today astronomers announced that they have found a huge new ring
around the planet, eight million miles from Saturn, a ring so large
that it could fit one billion planet earth's inside it.
If it's so huge, how could we have missed it for so long?
New ring detected around Saturn
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/w ... 296066.stm
I captured some of the images just in case the video goes away over time.
01.jpg <./download/file.php?id=1171&mode=view>
The new ring.
02.jpg <./download/file.php?id=1172&mode=view>
How it would look if visible.
03.jpg <./download/file.php?id=1173&mode=view>
The moon that moves through the ring, Iapetus, dark on one side,
light on the other.
04.jpg <./download/file.php?id=1174&mode=view>
Scale of the ring to Saturn.
This is fun stuff. The EU guys need to look at this and see what's going
on before they do the video release of "Symbols of an Alien Sky." You've
got a major ring that is in "dark mode" that may have been lit up like
crazy during the Saturn Event.
Wow!
The AP has a video on Youtube as well.
NASA Discovers Giant Ring Around Saturn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9LbL0QjxdU
This is from the AP on Yahoo.
NASA telescope discovers giant ring around Saturn
Wed Oct 7, 11:47 am ET
PASADENA, Calif. – The Spitzer Space Telescope has discovered the
biggest but never-before-seen ring around the planet Saturn, NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory announced late Tuesday.
The thin array of ice and dust particles lies at the far reaches of
the Saturnian system and its orbit is tilted 27 degrees from the
planet's main ring plane, the laboratory said.
JPL spokeswoman Whitney Clavin said the ring is very diffuse and
doesn't reflect much visible light but the infrared Spitzer
telescope was able to detect it.
Although the ring dust is very cold — minus 316 degrees Fahrenheit —
it shines with thermal radiation.
No one had looked at its location with an infrared instrument until
now, Clavin said.
The bulk of the ring material starts about 3.7 million miles from
the planet and extends outward about another 7.4 million miles.
The newly found ring is so huge it would take 1 billion Earths to
fill it, JPL said.
Before the discovery Saturn was known to have seven main rings named
A through E and several faint unnamed rings.
A paper on the discovery was to be published online Wednesday by the
journal Nature.
"This is one supersized ring," said one of the authors, Anne
Verbiscer, an astronomer at the University of Virginia in
Charlottesville. Her co-authors are Douglas Hamilton of the
University of Maryland, College Park, and Michael Skrutskie, also of
the University of Virginia.
Saturn's moon Phoebe orbits within the ring and is believed to be
the source of the material.
The ring also may answer the riddle of another moon, Iapetus, which
has a bright side and a very dark side.
The ring circles in the same direction as Phoebe, while Iapetus, the
other rings and most of Saturn's other moons go the opposite way.
Scientists think material from the outer ring moves inward and slams
into Iapetus.
"Astronomers have long suspected that there is a connection between
Saturn's outer moon Phoebe and the dark material on Iapetus," said
Hamilton. "This new ring provides convincing evidence of that
relationship."
The Spitzer mission, launched in 2003, is managed by JPL in
Pasadena. Spitzer is 66 million miles from Earth in orbit around the
sun.
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26933>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26933#p26933>by *arc-us
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54>* » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:06 pm
allynh wrote:
02.jpg <./download/file.php?id=1175&mode=view>
Click image for larger view
Guess it could be the vestige of what is being termed in EU Saturn
Theory as Proto-Saturn. Interesting speculation anyways.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our
mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's
subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Physics of the Saturnian Theory <#p26944>
Post <./viewtopic.php?p=26944#p26944>by *Lloyd
<./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=184>* » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:38 am
Allyn:
You've got a major ring that is in "dark mode" that may have been
lit up like crazy during the Saturn Event.
* The last EU theory I heard on Saturn's rings are that the rings that
were visible around Saturn in the Golden Age were not the same rings
that are visible today. I don't know at what point they think Saturn
acquired its present rings, but I suppose they think it was during or
after the breakup of the Saturn system.
* I saw on one of the satellite channels lately that the outer rings are
mostly pure ice, while the inner rings are mostly dust and rocks. I
think Enceladus is spewing ice into the outer rings right now. So the
inner rings may have been captured during the breakup. I guess Io spews
some kind of stuff, maybe sulphur, into Jupiter's ring. Uranus has rings
too, from its moon geysers I think.
* One TPOD http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch ... erings.htm
showed
that Saturn's and Uranus' rings are very similar.
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